GREATEST: Deb Never
Fellow-musician and collaborator Lava La Rue caught up with the breakout artist during her extended trip to London.
Deb Never came into the spotlight a little over a year ago with her debut EP House On Wheels. Since then the Seattle-native’s concoction of lo-fi guitars, 808 beats and melancholic lyrics have amassed an ever-growing audience that brought Deb a cult following the world over thanks to social media.
Initially coming to London for just one month to work on a number of projects, Deb remains stationed in the UK capital, taking advantage of the current situation to focus on newfound inspiration. This resulted in the surprise release of Intermission, a collection of songs she recently recorded during quarantine, and a brand new single with London-based musician Lava La Rue. The new track,“Angel”, is an ode to bi-coastal romance and an instant euphoric Queer anthem whose music video is guaranteed to cure any quarantine blues.
One week before the UK’s second lockdown, GREATEST shot Deb at her North West London rental, where, in between two song recordings, she channeled her energy at her home studio and the adjacent garden. Friend and collaborator Lava La Rue dialed Deb a few days later to ask her about what it feels to be an accidental fashion star and reflect on the evolution of Deb’s creative process.
You've been in London throughout the lockdown. What made you want to come back and work on music here in the first place?
I like the energy. I like everything. I think it's everything from the weather to the people, the culture around here. I don't know, I feel like there's a vibe. It reminds me a lot of home, a lot of Seattle, because of everything I just listed. Everyone's creative, doing their own thing and it's for no reason other than to just be creative and expressive. I fuck with that way more [than LA].
I know you have this pet peeve—not liking the energy of palm trees in the back of your music videos, and you don't like overly clichéd LA energy. Would you say that growing up in Seattle, you're more drawn to those comparisons that you could also find in London?
Yeah, absolutely. There is that stereotype of LA, but I think that authenticity is what resonates with me here. I don't know what my gripe is with palm trees. I don't know where that comes from. I think it's because it reminds me of sunshine or the beach and I'm so not that person. I guess in my head, a lot of people think I'm from LA and I'm most definitely not. But when I do visuals and that's in the background, it irks me because I'm like, ‘Yo, this is not a representation of me.’
I want to ask about your process of making music and how it's developed to the most recent work you put out.
The difference, I think, is just the influence. Just working out of London already brings out such a different sound. I'm not making some folk music or anything, but I think there's maybe a darker influence. Even the interactions are different. All of that really influences what's being made. I would say it's not as sunny, I guess, from what I'm used to living in LA.
I really want to know who you've been listening to, and what has been your main inspiration or just your environment music-wise.
Nothing that I've been listening to recently has been super influential in what I'm making. I don't mean that in a bad way. A lot of things that have been influencing me have been more nostalgic music. I listen to “Playground Love” by Air. It's hard to say what's been influencing me recently because a lot of the music I listen to is the complete opposite of the music I make.
I don't know what my gripe is with palm trees. I don't know where that comes from. I think it's because it reminds me of sunshine or the beach and I'm so not that person.
Deb Never
I feel like that's the case for a lot of artists though. I can listen to a fucking Slayer song and then make an R&B song after that. But I want to know what inspirations, whether it's recent or older, are funnelling into whatever comes out as new music?
Recently, I've actually been getting into a couple of artists that you put me onto, Lava. Verzace's “Feeling That Feel”. That [singing]. And I listen to this girl ELLE, I think she's French?
Yes, ELLE, oh my God. That's my homie, that's so crazy you've been listening to her.
That's your homie? The whole vibe just from these songs is so fucking good. But like I was saying, opposite to the type of stuff I would make. But it's nice. She's really good.
How much freedom would you say you have in your creative process, and how much in the back of your mind do you think you think about the response? As a friend, I feel like you make what you want to make, and you have a lot of freedom. But at the same time, I also know you're your biggest critic.
Dude, absolutely. You know me so well. I have definitely a lot of creative freedom. The only thing that pushes me is myself. I know you said this is with every artist, but you're your own worst critic.
I feel like I have to be happy with what I make before I even start thinking about what other people think about it. Because ultimately, when you make music, you make music for you. You don't make music just to please other people. You make what sounds good to you, you make what makes you happy, and say what you want to say.
I feel like for every artist there's a moment where you go from, ‘Okay, I'm going to drop out of school or quit the shop, I want to do this 100%.’ Do you remember that turning point where you were like, ‘Yeah, this is who I am now. I'm Deb Never.’
Honestly that didn't happen until recently... I don't know if it's because I was scared to admit it to myself that I wanted to do it, but it was really recent. It was when House on Wheel came out, which was only a year ago. I was like, "Oh, yeah, I think I want to run this." At the beginning I was scared, and I don't know if it was because I just didn't realize that it was an option that you could do this, for real.
When I used to play in bands, I was like, ‘What am I doing? I have to get my life together.’ Even my manager, Mike, he didn't even know for the longest time. I was friends with Mike for a year and he didn't even know that I did music until there were a couple links on my SoundCloud that he said, ‘Yo, what the hell? Let's work.’
That's so funny because I feel like that does really describe your personality well in that you accidentally fall into things. I feel like there's a little guy in your subconscious that knew all along, but in the foreground of things, you're just like, ’Oh shit, I'm making music now. Oh shit, I'm living in London now.’
That's what happens in my life so much. The fact that I came to London and was planning on being here for one month... I came for one month, only packed summer clothes because I was like, ‘Oh it's going to be hot. It's my little vacation moment.’ It's fucking November, I'm still here, freezing, with one bag of clothes.
I came [to London] for one month, only packed summer clothes because I was like, ‘Oh it's going to be hot. It's my little vacation moment.’ It's fucking November, I'm still here, freezing, with one
bag of clothes.Deb Never
With you accidentally falling into music, coming to London and staying here, I feel like you've unintentionally become a fashion icon. In terms of your fashion, do you think growing up in Seattle had any inspiration?
Yeah, maybe. People are always like, ‘Oh, you like this grungy look.’ And I'm like, ‘Is that because you know I'm from Seattle, so you assume that immediately? Or is it just, if I hadn't told you, would you think that?’ You know what I mean? I think subconsciously there must be some influences from there, like dirty Converses. I had one pair of Converse that I wore in seventh grade, and then I just ran that until my feet grew out of them. They were just so beat up and dirty. That was more out of necessity, but that was kind of a look.
Obviously loads of crazy shit has been happening in the world right now. America is madness. How do you feel watching everything that's happening back home but from overseas in your London creative world?
I feel guilty. I feel so guilty.
Between America, UK and Canada, I see a lot of Queer artists, and they're all like, ‘Yo, everyone fucking look after yourselves right now.’ Why are people expecting us to fix it, a world that we didn't actually fuck up?
A hundred percent, and that's something I've been struggling with recently: finding that balance because a part of me is like, ‘Oh, I want to.’ Obviously if you have some type of platform, you should have a voice. But another part of me is like, ‘But I'm fucked off in London.’ Everyone else back home is going through it, and I'm checking up on them obviously. But part of me is like, ‘How could I be preaching on it?’ Especially if it's online, how can I be like, ‘Do this, do this?’ Meanwhile, I'm chilling in London.
I remember when Black Lives Matter started to kick up both in America and in the rest of the world, you were out there protecting protesters in London and helping people who had tear gas.
Bro, I got tear gassed. My left eye is still fucked.
I think that's the inner Riot Grrrl in you. How do you navigate this social media world when we're people who have learned and lived off of doing things in necessity?
I think it's amazing that, especially now, people are raising awareness. Just personally, I'm not good at that stuff. And I know that, which I'm trying to get better at. That's what I mean with the struggle of not being in America, because I'd rather physically be there and doing something about it.
In terms of the pandemic, I recall the other day when we were chilling and listening to music and dancing. You turned to me and you were like, ‘Yo, do you remember just being in a crowd of people dancing? Because that feels like forever ago.’ When things do go back to normal, who are the first people you're going to party with?
Definitely friends. I'm lucky that I'm here and you're nearby. But back in LA, I feel like I haven't seen anybody for a long time. Before I even came here, we were still in quarantine mode. For most of 2020, I feel like I haven't seen a lot of my friends. I don't know, man, when this COVID shit's over, I want to throw an underground rave and invite everyone I know.
I actually haven't sent you this, but I just found a photo of the day I showed you [our song] “Angel” for the first time. How would you describe our songs together in a sentence?
Our song together would be like if you died and went to heaven and then the gates open and it was some sexy girl rap singing to you. You're like, ‘Oh, yes.’ And you go in and you see this giant meadow with a beautiful bunch of colors and you think you're on acid.
Our song together would be like if you died and went to heaven and then the gates open and it was some sexy girl rap singing to you.
Deb Never
I could not describe that better myself. You said meadow. Can you just tell the people about that moment where I showed you the song for the first time? Because we were in a meadow, and the way you describe it is really cinematic.
Basically, the first time Lava played me the song, I remember I had these noise-canceling headphones in and we were at this park [in Hampstead Heath]. It was sunset. First time I stepped outside after quarantine, Lava was having a get-together. I pulled up, it was like 5 or 6:00 PM, perfect timing. I've never seen parks in London before, but that was beautiful, it was like a meadow. I walked up and she was like, ‘Yo, I want to show you the song.’ We all sit down. There's a ton of people, by the way, everyone's drinking, having a great time. I put the song into my headphones and it cancels out every noise around me. The song starts playing and I remember sitting there, and the sun was setting, and the sky was pink...I'm looking around and it felt like I couldn't hear what anybody was saying. All you see felt really cinematic where people are laughing, throwing things at each other, drinking. I feel like I was watching everything in slow motion while the song was playing. I'm like, ‘Yo, this looks like a music video.’ I was completely sober by the way. That was the moment when I was like, ‘I need to get on the song’ because it was such a vibe. I felt like I was living... I had a main character moment. I was literally living in the song at that very moment.
I'm really excited for people to get that same feeling and emotion, that main character moment as you did when you were in the park.
Definitely when you listen to it, put on some headphones really loud, drown out everything else and just go to the park, at sunset.